My Case for Warner
By Rams Nation's forum poster : Yodude
My Case for Warner
Keep in mind that these are just my opinions, although I do believe they are
based on facts. If you are one of those people who are allergic to opinion that
is based on facts, you may want to stop reading, as going further might result
in physical discomfort (a feeble attempt at humor).
Disclaimer: In an effort to keep redundancy to a
minimum and to not steal any ideas others may have that I did not think of,
I have not read any of the other posts in this thread before I posted my own
thoughts. Having said that, I’m sure there will be arguments, which others
that agree with me have put forth, that I do repeat. This is entirely coincidental,
as people that have the same views are sure to have some of the same arguments.
Some of these thoughts don’t have much to do with football, but others
have cited them in their arguments against Warner, so I’ll touch on them.
You may have seen some of these ideas presented in other posts I have made (or
a combination thereof), but I am trying to be thorough.
Warning: This is a long post. For maximum enjoyment, I suggest a comfortable
chair, an open beer (or other beverage of choice), and an open mind.
1)Last Years Results
Where do I begin regarding last year? I think we can all agree that last year
sucked. I’ll be the first to admit that Warner did not play well last
year. What I refuse to agree with, and what I have trouble comprehending, is
how some people want to totally dump every one of last year’s losses that
Warner appeared in, totally on his shoulders. Now I’ve been a Ram fan
and football fan for about 30 years. I consider myself relatively knowledgeable
about football, but certainly do not consider myself an expert or in any way
infallible. I realize that the QB is the leader of the team and usually gets
too much credit for a win and too much blame for a loss. It goes with the position
and the salary. But in my opinion, even the casual fan has to examine the extenuating
circumstances regarding last year’s losses (Even our system of justice
recognizes extenuating circumstances, but apparently some football fans don’t).
Don’t get me wrong; I’m not absolving Warner of responsibility…and
neither has he dodged taking responsibility for what happened last year. But
it is totally unfair to not recognize the other contributing factors that lead
to the fiasco that was 2002. These are the things that I see as contributing
factors to last year.
A.)Injuries, lack of depth, and generally incompetent play by the offensive
line. Good offensive line play is the most critical requirement for a team that
wants to pass the ball; I don’t think I’m stating something we all
don’t know here. It was sorely missed last year.
B.)Martz tried to run an offense designed around 5 quality receivers but only
had 3 at the most. Look at who we had previously at the position: Bruce, Holt,
Proehl, Hakim, Kennison, and Horn. Now look at last year: Bruce, Holt, Proehl,
Edwards, and Wilkins. Anyone notice a distinct drop-off in talent? Yet Martz
expected Warner to run the same offense.
C.)An injured or missing Marshall Faulk. Not only did Warner not have his contribution
to the running and passing games, but with the o-line playing as it did, Warner
sorely missed Faulk’s skill at picking up the blitz and his overall pass
protection skills.
D.)Even in games where Faulk was present, Martz for the most part ignored the
running game even though most of Warner’s games were not decided until
well into the 4th quarter.
E.)Probably most important, I don’t think Warner was ever at 100% health
wise save for the first game or two. Playing hurt, he still gave his all every
game without much support from the rest of the team or Martz, and still managed
to keep the Rams competitive in each game.
Yes, he made mistakes, had turnovers, bad reads, etc., which other QB’s
also do. Was he overly concerned with the pass rush? Probably. Can you blame
him with the way he was being pummeled by defenses? I certainly can’t.
Was he single-handedly responsible for every loss, like some people try to convince
us? There is no way.
2)Bulger/Warner 2002
People really liked to point out the won/loss record of the 2 quarterbacks last
year. I didn’t have the time to dig up all the numbers from each game
last year but I know they were severely skewed in Bulger’s favor. Jake
had an awesome post a few months ago where he actually compiled all the relevant
numbers for each QB from each game. It should have been required reading for
everyone on this board no matter which side of the debate you are on. In an
effort to include that post in my argument, I contacted Jake to see if he had
the stats saved and get permission to use them. Unfortunately he did not save
them. But a few hours after his reply, I got another e-mail from him. He had
re-compiled most of the stats without my asking him to and sent them to me.
Very big THANKS for doing that for me Jake. I really appreciate it. Anyway,
here are the stats. They include the games from this year.
***Kurt Warner***
@Denver- 13 rushes, 41 passes = Loss
New York Giants- 17 rushes, 39 passes = Loss
@Tampa Bay- 20 rushes, 45 passes = Loss
@Washington- 17 rushes, 49 passes = Loss
@Philadelphia- 20 rushes, 42 passes = Loss
@New York Giants- 13 rushes, 55 passes = Loss
Average = 16.66 rushes, 45.16 passes
Result = 0-6 in games with significant playing time
Note: -Only had 2 attempted passes vs. Dallas and 2 vs. Chicago
***Marc Bulger***
Oakland- 32 rushes, 21 passes = Win
Seattle- 42 rushes, 40 passes = Win
@Arizona- 36 rushes, 29 passes = Win
San Diego- 16 rushes, 48 passes = Win
Chicago- 20 rushes, 37 passes = Win
Arizona- 19 rushes, 40 passes = Win
San Francisco- 24 rushes, 36 passes = Win
@Seattle- 28 rushes, 34 passes = Loss
Arizona- 41 rushes, 42 passes = Win
Atlanta- 31 rushes, 35 passes = Win
Green Bay- 27 rushes, 34 passes = Win
@Pittsburgh- 37 rushes, 37 passes = Win
@San Francisco- 8 rushes, 42 passes = Loss
Average = 27.77 rushes, 36.54 passes
Result = 11-2 in games with significant playing time
Note: -Only had one attempted pass at Seattle
The numbers show without a question that Bulger benefited form the following:
majority of home games compared to a majority of road games for Warner; a much
more balanced game plan compared to a total imbalance in games Warner played;
games against much weaker defenses compared to Warner, who faced some of the
toughest defenses in the league on the road; much better offensive line play;
availability of a healthy Faulk in most of his games last year; a simplified
game plan that was tailored to protect the quarterback. These differences, as
far as I’m concerned, make it invalid to simply compare the 2 QB’s
won/loss records and make that the sole basis on which to decide that Warner
should sit.
3)Martz and the Organization
For the reasons outlined above, I say that to be fair, you have to throw out
last year’s results and admit there were circumstances that make it invalid
to blame the losses on Warner alone. Apparently, Martz and the Rams organization
agreed this spring with that assessment. Once Warner was given a clean bill
of health, he was given his roster bonus and named the starting QB before preseason.
Martz didn’t have to do this, he could have left it as an open competition,
but he named Warner the starter. His exact quote was that Kurt was the starting
QB and that if he faltered along the way, he was still the starting QB. To me,
that confirms my opinion that you can’t hold Warner solely responsible
for last years result. Martz flat out admitted that he did next to nothing to
help out Warner during the tough season he had in 2002 and that he did a very
poor job of coaching.
4)Pre-Season 2003
Warner went into pre-season as the starting QB, and by all accounts, he seemed
like he was back to his old self. In very limited duty, barely enough to shake
off the rust from missing most of last year, he looked impressive. Against Buffalo,
he went 13-15 for 125 YDS and 1 TD. Against the Bucs starting defense he was
7-7. In his 4 appearances he had (I think) 4 incomplete passes and 0 interceptions.
Granted, this limited duty did not go far in showing how he would handle defensive
pressure, I think it pretty much laid to rest any concerns about the health
of his oft-injured hand and speculation about his shoulder. Which pretty much
were the only concerns up to that point in time. In the meantime, Bulger played
significantly more against other teams second and third string players and looked
mediocre at best. Against K.C., he looked downright bad. So all in all, I think
it’s valid to say that in pre-season, we saw nothing at all that would
have indicated that Warner was losing his skills.
5)Game 1-2003 Giants
That brings us to the Giants game. What can I say, we all remember this game.
55 passes, 13 runs. Horrendous offensive line play leading to 6 sacks in the
first half.
6 fumbles by Warner, 3 of which were lost. If I remember correctly, one was
due to bad snap. Warner suffers what is suspected to be a mild concussion early
in the game. He suffers through a terrible first half but bounces back after
halftime. Even with the beating he takes (the Giants got in at least a dozen
solid hits on Warner), he manages to throw for almost 400 YDS and keeps the
Rams in the game.
Mike Martz admits that Warner did not look right to him in the first half,
saying he looked confused when Martz gave him the plays. Martz admits Warner
shouldn’t have played past the half and said he regrets leaving him in.
Later Martz acknowledges the Giants game as one of the worst games he has ever
called as a coach. So Martz decides to use concern for Warner’s health
as an excuse to bench him and start Bulger…saying that it’s a situation
that will be re-evaluated on a week-by-week basis…. who’s he trying
to kid? I don’t understand how anybody with a rational mind, and this
includes Bulger supporters, who 2 years ago probably thought Kurt Warner was
the greatest thing since sliced bread, does not see how shady this whole situation
is.
So the bottom line, in my opinion, is that Kurt Warner, 2-time League MVP,
and Superbowl winner gets benched for 1 bad game, a game in which Warner admittedly
made some questionable decisions, held on to the ball too long and had a bunch
of fumbles, but was battered and playing with a concussion. A game in which
Martz gave him virtually no help….calling it one of his worst coaching
performances ever. That’s just incredible. Let me think….how many
years did we have Tony Banks, the fumblingest (I don’t think that’s
a word, but I like the sound of it) QB in NFL history lining up behind center
for the Rams? And yet, we’re going to bench Warner on the basis of 1 game.
I don’t know about you guys, but to me, there’s something wrong
with this picture.
6)The “Why Don’t You Stop Being a Warner Fan and Start Being a
Ram Fan” Argument
This has got to be one of the silliest arguments that I have heard. Where is
it written in the NFL Fan Handbook that you are a bad “team” fan
just because you have a favorite player and you support him when you think he
is getting a raw deal? I don’t think you’ll find too many sports
fans out there that don’t have a favorite player. Just ask OrlandoPaceIsMyHero,
28Rulz, or JimOtisFan (sorry to use you in my argument, Dude. I know it probably
won’t sit well). Or check out some avatars like Ferter's or TxRamsFan’s,
just to name a few. How about all the people who responded to the Who’s
Your Alltime Favorite Ram or the Alltime Rams Roster post. Ask them if they
consider themselves bad fans or anti-team because they have a favorite player.
Now I’m going to turn this argument back on whoever uses it. I consider
myself just as much of a Rams fan as some one who thinks Bulger should be the
starter because, until it’s proven to me fairly, I honestly consider Warner
the better QB. As fans of the TEAM, I think the organization owes it to us to
start the best players on the roster so that the TEAM has the best possible
chance at victory each week. Warner has proven himself to me over the last 4
years. Through the hard road he took to reach the NFL, he has developed character,
leadership, toughness, heart, determination and a “never-say-die”
attitude. I’ve seen these things in the fire of his eyes. I’m not
saying Bulger is bad or he sucks or anything remotely close to that. But if
I honestly think Warner is the better player, then your argument that I’m
not a “team-first” player doesn’t hold water with me. It’s
because I believe in the TEAM that I want Warner to start. I think any competent
QB can get us through the regular season. But in the playoffs, I want my Superbowl
winner, Superbowl MVP, and 2-time League MVP behind center. Does it mean we’ll
win the Superbowl? No. Ramtime had a good point in a post this week. He said
that there are 11 losing QB’s in the playoffs each season. Does this mean
they should all be benched? Of course not. But we all know the playoffs are
a different animal than the regular season. Who out there doesn’t feel
more comfortable starting a proven playoff performer at crunch time?
My last point here is a thought from Blacktrout, who said it best when he said
that, with Warner, you never felt that the game was lost or out of reach. We
always had a chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. You want proof?
Remember the playoff game against the ‘Aints Did any of you guys give
up on the Rams at halftime of that game? I sure didn’t. And if Hakim doesn’t
fumble, who knows? Now I ask you, honestly, how many of you thought we’d
come back at San Fran last week when the first half ended. Think about it.
7)“The Team Wants Bulger” Theory
I still don’t get this one. Let’s assume it’s true that there
are those that want Bulger as the starter. Since when do the players decide
that they want to play harder for this guy versus that guy? Aren’t they
getting paid large sums of money to play football? Do any of these guys have
clauses in their contracts stating that, unless THEIR choice of quarterback
is starting, they get to loaf around and not be committed? Imagine this scenario.
An offensive lineman walks up to his coach and says, “ Uhhhhhhhhhhh, excuse
me Mr. Lombardi? Can I have a minute? Um, some of the guys and I have been talking,
and, well, er, we’ve decided that we’ve kind of lost faith in Bart.
Ya, I know he played hurt all last year, and don’t think we don’t
appreciate him sacrificing for the team and all. Now, I know you have faith
in him and you named him the starter and said he’d remain the starter
even if he had trouble. But we just don’t think you’re doing the
right thing, with all due respect, of course.”
Imagine this scene repeated with Bill Parcells, Tom Landry, and John Madden
or plug in your coach of choice. Get my point?
If this team has players on it that are willing to play harder for someone
other than who the head coach says is the starter, then this head coach has
lost his team.
I have one more thing to say under this heading, but I’m saving it for
last! Read on.
8)Warner has Lost His Courage
I actually had a few paragraphs to say to those misguided enough to believe
this. But then I decided this theory is too silly to justify a response. Sorry.
9)The Brenda Deal
I know I’m going to get skewered for this but here goes anyway.
Honestly, this is a total non-issue as far as I’m concerned. I bring
it up only because so many people are so upset about it. Why? Who knows? But
I think that even in this day and age, a lot of people feel threatened by an
outspoken woman who has the “nerve” to speak what’s on her
mind. This is Warner’s 5th season with the Rams, and there have been a
total of 2 instances where Brenda Warner has opened her mouth. Once when her
husband’s integrity was being questioned on the air during a radio show,
and another where she was flat-out asked how she felt about a possible trade
during the off-season. 2 comments in 5 years hardly qualify someone to be tagged
with a “Yoko Ono” label.
I ask you, how many of you would not come to the aid of a family member whose
integrity was question in a public forum and they were not there to defend themselves.
I would venture to guess that most of us would. If not, you should take a look
at yourself.
As far as the trade comments, she was simply stating the obvious in answer
to a direct question. How the hell is that controversial? How should she have
replied? “Gee guys, I have an opinion, but I better not give it to you,
seeing as how I am only a woman. I really don’t think I have a right to
an opinion, let alone to express it publicly.”
In case there are those out there who don’t know it, I’ll point
this out. This was a woman who served in the United States Marine Corp. She
served her country and she served all of us as well. And you have the nerve
to say to her “shut up and sit in the corner.”
One more thing. As far as this causing a problem in the locker room, all I
have to say is that if we have players on the team that can be driven to distraction
by this garbage, we have more serious issues than we’ll ever know.
10)Last Week’s 49er’s Game/At Last, the Double Standard Revealed
Ah yes, the double standard – demonstrated to perfection after last Sunday’s
Rams/49ers Game.
Finally, we saw a game where Bulger had to endure the same circumstances as
Warner in game one. Guess what? Same results. Actually, no. The results were
much worse, as we were out of the game well before halftime.
This last game against the 49ers showed what happens to ANY QB in the league
if the rest of his team (Tory Holt is exempt from this criticism) doesn’t
show up to play. Bulger played a terrible game (and I’m not saying Warner
would have done better). Even when he had plenty of time to throw, his throws
were all over the place. I lost count of how many passes were batted down by
the defensive lineman. Many of those that were not batted down were over-thrown,
under-thrown, or just badly thrown. I am criticizing Bulger, but I’m not
knocking him. Anyone under these game conditions might have played this poorly.
Let’s face it the team didn’t show up. Neither did the coaching
staff for that matter.
My point here is that many people pointed to Warner as the ONLY reason for
the Giants loss. There is and has been, a HUGE double standard in how the 2
QB’s are being judged. All of a sudden, everyone is promoting the “it’s
a team game, how can you blame one guy for the outcome” philosophy. Well
isn’t that what happened to Warner? Where was the “team” concept
after the Giants game? Where was the “team” concept when Warner
was getting hammered for every loss last year even though his head coach stacked
the deck against him? Warner shouldered the blame for last years record with
no regard for the injuries, bad o-line play, bad coaching, etc. Now all of a
sudden it has gone back to a “team” game. Well, sorry, but you can’t
have it both ways. If it’s a team loss for Bulger then it’s a team
loss for Warner. If Warner has to be held accountable then so does Bulger. I’d
be a hypocrite if I now said that Bulger should be benched for one bad game.
I didn’t think that was fair to Warner and I’m sticking to it. I
will point out that Bulger was supposed to be starting because he “managed
the game” better. Well I sure didn’t see that. If your trying to
convince me that a 2-time MVP and Superbowl champ should be sitting on the bench
in favor of Bulger, he better show me that he can carry the team even when the
rest of the team doesn’t show up! Anybody can quarterback the team when
they play the way they did before the 49ers game.
11)Benefit of the Doubt Factor
I’m of the opinion that with everything Warner has accomplished in his
short career with the Rams, he is entitled to one thing. Even if you’re
not willing to acknowledge all the other team problems the Rams had (which certainly
we should) last year, and place all the blame on Warner, as people have tried
to do, isn’t it fair to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case?
Just based on the fact that he was never really healthy last year? Hasn’t
he EARNED that? I think he has. I do not say that from any misguided loyalty
to him. Other QB’s have earned that “benefit of the doubt”
in their careers. Others have had sub-par years even when injuries weren’t
a factor and yet did not lose their starting status. Doesn’t he deserve
to be evaluated with the same criteria we are using to evaluate Bulger?
A few thoughts on Bulger. I really do like him. I think he’s a good young
QB with a chance to get much better. Is he competent? Yes. But I’ve not
seen anything from him to convince me yet that the guy who took us to 2 Superbowls
and won 1 and won 2 MVP awards should be on the bench. This is in no way meant
as a slam. Yes, he’s won games. But guess what. That’s what he’s
supposed to do and gets paid to do. Not too many teams that I know of have a
backup QB that when the starter is hurt, they expect him to come in and lose
games. As far as I’m concerned, he has not done anything earth-shattering
that a healthy Warner with the same game-plan and healthy, competent team couldn’t
have done. Yes, he’s done well. Has he done well enough in the same environment
that Warner played in to warrant starting. No.
Please don’t take this as criticism. I really believe that Bulger has
handled this with as much class and professionalism that Warner has. But I’m
not convinced that he gives us the better chance to win. I’ll have to
see a healthy Warner with the same game plan, good offensive line play, a healthy
Faulk and a full complement of receivers, for more than 1 game, to decide if
he has lost it. Until then the jury is out in my opinion.
12)What Warner has Meant to Me as a Fan / An Emotional Look
As I’ve stated, I’ve been a Rams fan for about 30 years. I’ve
suffered through many disappointing seasons as I’ve waited for my Rams
to ascend the mountain (as have all of you, no doubt).
Along comes Kurt Warner and he lead us there. Not single-handedly, to be sure,
but he was the leader. You may not all agree now, but if I asked you 2 years
ago, I think most of you would have agreed. Here was an athlete, and more importantly,
a person, who people could look up to as a role model. Not because of his athletic
skills, but because of the man he is; his character, values, integrity, honesty,
heart, determination, faith, and love for his family and caring for his community.
I’ve been a Rams fan since childhood…a die-hard fan. I didn’t
think it was possible, but here was a guy that made me feel better about being
a Rams fan than I had ever felt before. After watching countless selfish, egotistical
players come and go in this league like Jeff George, Deion Sanders, Terrel Owens,
Ryan Leaf, Lawrence Phillips, Andre Rison, the list is endless, here was Warner.
And he was a RAM. And he brought us the Superbowl. To see him get treated like
this is wrong.
I want to win. We all do. But for me, and others, it has to be with honesty,
integrity and fair play, or it’s tainted to a certain extant. Winning
can’t be at all cost. Isn’t that what we teach our kids in sports.
Is that bullsh** just because we’re older now and there’s money
involved?
I think not, and there are those that agree. I know there are those who share
these views. You want some good examples? Find Trout’s post titled Let
me explain… it’s one of the best posts I have read on this board.
Or Moklerman’s post where he described how he feels when he sees Warner
on the sidelines, healthy, and wearing a headset. I think they sum up how a
lot of us feel.
Conclusion
At various times in these debates on the forum, I’ve had my ego questioned
by various posters. They said, “are you that smart and know that much
about football, that you think you know better than Mike Martz as to who should
be the QB of this team? Aren’t you being a little arrogant thinking this
way?”
Actually, as I’ve said, it’s because I DON’T KNOW, that I
want Warner to get another chance. I want to see him play and have him be evaluated
FAIRLY, like Bulger. I don’t think I know better than other people, that’s
why I want to see to find out. As a fan, I reserve the right to judge for myself.
I’ll end this with an excerpt from this year’s Sports Illustrated
NFL Season Preview Issue. It’s from an article by Michael Silver titled
In St. Louis: The Marked Man. I didn’t get permission to copy this but
since I’m giving credit, I hope I’m satisfying the legalities. If
not, I might need legal representation. Avenger….are you there?
A preppy goes into a bar and walks up to an NFL star talking on a cellphone.
TheTwo men get into a heated discussion about health, integrity and the pursuit
of SuperBowls….If you’re looking for a punchline, forget it. This
isn’t a joke.
The preppy, who looks as if he stepped out of a J. Crew catalogue, was a St.
Louis RamsFan. The bar was J. Buck’s, a hot spot in suburban St. Louis,
on a chilly evening late last November. The football player was the Rams’
future Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk. The topic was quarterback Kurt
Warner and the controversy surrounding his suddenly not-so-golden arm.
“Yo, Marshall,” the preppy said by way of introduction, pushing
forward so excitedly that he spilled Grey Goose and tonic on Faulk’s size-11
Pradas. “Warner’s got to go!”
“Really?” Faulk replied, bristling, his call having been abruptly
ended. “You think you know football, huh?”
“Yeah, I do, and he’s killing you guys,” the preppy continued.
“The kid’s much better.”
Faulk, who argues with the subtlety of a White Stripes guitar riff, started
to boil. “Look,” he said, “Kurt wants what I want. He wants
what you want. And that’s for the Rams to win.” He reminded the
preppy that Warner had played hurt in recent years yet had won one Super Bowl,
led the Rams into a second title game and won a pair of league MVP awards at
the same time. “When he had two bad ribs and still got us that ring,”
Faulk said, “I didn’t see you complaining then.”
The preppy held his ground. “Yeah? Well if you want to win now, you’d
better hope they give the damn ball to Marc Bulger,” he said, “because
Kurt Warner is D-O-N-E, done!”
What Faulk said next was littered with words that sounded suspiciously like
his surname.
Recounting the incident months later, Faulk said, “Trust me, there were
a lot of guys in a lot of bars who shared their thoughts on Kurt. I probably
got into it with most of them.”
Later in the article, Faulk says, “Kurt has delivered for us under pressure
time and time again, and he deserves to be our leader until he proves otherwise.”
I for one don’t believe that game one of this year is enough proof of
that. Until I see it for myself, I’ll just take Marshall’s word
for it. I’m quite sure he knows a lot more about football than I ever
will.
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Yodude